28 September 2001 BGS Newsletter Issue 38

Welcome to the thirty-eighth edition of the Borley Ghost Society Newsletter. A game called The Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon links any actor/actress to any other. It seems it only takes about three names to find someone who knows someone who was affected by the terrorist attacks of 9-11. It has been most heart-warming to hear the many uplifting responses regarding that horrible day. Thank you all.

James Van Arrgghh

The death of a neighbor, and the thousands of deaths September 11, have inspired an essay about James Van Praagh. Comments are more than welcome.

Borley Daylight Savings Time

I have a question in regards to one of the controversies over Price's reporting of the phantom nun sighting by the Bull sisters. This controversy concerns the question of how much light was available when the Bull sisters allegedly saw the nun. Some versions of this incident make it sound like the sighting was at noon which would guarantee that the sisters unmistakably saw what they thought was a flesh-and-blood person. On the other hand, other sources suggest that the sun was already below the horizon which would mean long shadows would have made it much harder to easily discern what anything was.
But Price's followup book, The End of Borley Rectory, actually provided some unexpected insight into the nun sighting controversy. Price's book indicates that investigators would arrive at the rectory at seemingly late hours to have a look at it and I wondered why people would waste their time looking at the ruins in the dark. Then it dawned on me that the closer to the earth's poles you get, the more hours of daylight you have during certain times of the year. This indicates that if the investigators arrived at the rectory even as late as 10 PM, as I seem to remember one example stating, then there may still be sunlight to see things with.
The point is that even if the Bull sisters saw the nun as late as 9 PM after coming home from a party, the fact that they saw the nun on July 28, roughly five weeks after the summer solstice (June 22, I believe) at England's latitude, indicates there may still have been ample sunlight to see things with. In fact, where I'm at it's always dark by 9 PM, no matter what part of the year. I was consequently disappointed that the Bull's saw the nun at 9 PM thinking how hard it is to see things here without artificial light at that hour. The bottom line is that I failed to consider the difference in available sunlight between Borley and much further south, where I'm at.
So my question is, given the Bull sisters did see the nun around 9 PM, and please correct me if I'm wrong about this time, what time does the sun actually set in Borley Village, England on July 28 of each year? Let's define sunset as when roughly half the sun is still above the horizon.
Thank you.
Scott Cunningham
[On page 44 of The Most Haunted House in England, Price wrote, "It was quite light, as the sun had not set." ]

I just noticed that in the paragraph starting on the bottom of page 54 of the Collector's printing of THE MOST HAUNTED HOUSE IN ENGLAND that Price had interviewed Edward Cooper about his Borley experiences. Mr. Cooper said he saw the nun crossing the courtyard about 10 o'clock on a bright summer evening while it was just barely dark. Given this testimony, I suspect doubters are thinking that it was getting confusingly dark at Borley when the Bull sisters saw the nun about 9 o'clock. I think this perspective inadvertently overlooks the longer sunlight hours of the higher northern latitudes. I know that I made this mistake.
From Borley web site this sentence was taken from the bottom half of an essay by Andrew Clarke: "It is possible to read Price's account of the famous sighting of the nun by the Bull sisters without realizing that the sighting happened in twilight, at 9pm in July, an hour after sunset." For right now I'll take Mr. Cooper's word over Mr. Clarke's that there must have been ample sunlight to see things at 9 pm if you could still see things, as Mr. Cooper claimed, at 10 pm!
Scott Cunningham
[Thanks for the research. By the way, the Collector's edition is an exact reprint.]

Rectory furniture

Very many thanks for the BORLEY GHOST SOCIETY Newsletter 37. Another excellent issue. I was closely associated with Borley from 1946 onwards and there was no sale of any Rectory furniture or effects to my knowledge. There was a sale of some effects at Chilton Lodge around the late 1960s that had once been at Borley Rectory such as Dodie's Diary and various pictures. The Chilton Lodge was demolished.
Best always,
Peter Underwood

Letters to the Editor

I am the Great, Great, Great, Great Granddaughter of Simon Sudbury who was the Archbishop of Canterbury who was beheaded in 1381, I am searching for any information you may have regarding his parents etc.
Thank you,
Valerie Morris
[While this is one line I do not specifically research, I shall pass along your request to tohers who might share your interest. Good luck!]

Tried to email you last week to express my sympathy about the outrages perpetrated by terrorists in your country. I do hope that no-one you knew was affected. Our hearts go out to the Americans blighted by these evil acts.
With all good wishes
Richard Lee-Van den Daele

It took one week till I've found the right words relating to this incomprehensible, terrible and cruel occurrence in New York. But I can't put into words what I want to say or what I feel. One part of my feelings is great rage the other is a deep sadness. To cut a long story short, we all are shocked about this terrible attack against the United States of America and not least against the whole world. I would like to express my sincere solidarity with you and with all the other people in the USA and I wish you strength in this hard time. Our thoughts are with you. God bless you all! Yours,
Birgit Brenner

I'm doing some research for an idea for a radio programme about Harry Price for BBC Radio and I think you might be able to help me. I've been looking at your Borley website and very interested in the references to the radio broadcasts of Harry in the 1930s and 1940s. Initial enquiries about these within the BBC hasn't turned anything up, but still looking. Have you heard any of them? Do you know anyone who may have copies? I'd like to hear his voice, it would be a very strong part of the radio programme if it goes ahead.
The radio programme is still in the idea stage, but if we do make it I'll ensure you are sent a tape. The idea of the programme is centred around Price as one of the first people to attempt to explain the paranormal scientifically. Harry's voice is proving to be very elusive, but if your colleagues come up with anything it would be great to hear about it.
Look forward to hearing from you, all the best.
Carol Purcell
Broadcast Assistant
Features
Room 214
BBC Radio Scotland
0131 248 4293
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioscotland
[Unfortunately, neither I nor any of my associates have been able to find any audio tapes with the voice of Harry Price. I will notify my contacts one more time to see what we can find, however. Thank you for your interest. Please let me know when the project is finished so we can listen.]

A friend of mine would like to join the borley ghost society but is not on the internet,can you give me an address if there is one so he can join by mail. Thank you.
Darran Brown
[The BORLEY GHOST SOCIETY is geared for those with Internet access, although I do send out a limited number of the newsletters to those without computers. Please have your friend get in touch with me via snail mail, and I'll see what I can do.]

Today here in England [14 September] memorial services were held up and down the country for all those people who were lost in the States. Everything stopped and there was a three minutes silence.
I hope that all is well with you. Bye for now and God Bless.
Maureen Shaw
[My sincere thanks to all those who sent similar messages from all around the world. The entire country was extremly touched by the band playing The Star Spanlged Banner during the changing of the guard. Thank you all.]

My name is Joe Decker and I am the producer for the Lou Gentile Radio Show. If you are not familiar with Mr. Gentile's show, please visit our website at www.lougentile.com. Here you will find some useful information about our show. The reason I am writing is we are currently booking guests for October 2001 through the end of the year. I would like to invite you to appear on the show to discuss The Borley Rectory. A topic of this nature would be of great interest to our listeners. If you would be interested in appearing on the show, please email me. . . .and we can setup a prelimary phone interview and schedule a date for your appearance. I thank you for your time and I'll look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Joe Decker
Producer
The Lou Gentile Show

I have been to Borley myself, with a group of friends in August 1999. This was after some people at college had visited the village on the anniversary of the fire in July. We were interested to know what kind of place required a police presence on such an occasion. We took two cars with us and in total there was seven of us. We left Newmarket, Cambs at about 10.30 that evening, arriving just after midnight after finding the place eventually. On arrival we took our only torch and ventured towards the Church, admittedly on my behalf with some apprehension as it was a little too spooky for me. As we neared the gate the torch gave up, now this sounds a little corny I admit but this was enough for the three lads who had gone to get provisions for the journey and the new batteries for the torch, to leg it back to their car and lock themselves in!. This left me and my best mate Dan and a couple of others at the gate. After a few minutes of careful consideration we decided that we would venture on as we had spent ages finding the place, and we were pretty sure there are no such things as ghosts. We followed the path to the left up to the door of the church, after looking at a white object for about ten minutes then realising it was just a headstone partially under a tree on the left, that is. By the door we were now pretty confident and walk round the whole graveyard without seeing a thing. We returned back to the cars and told the others that we had seen nothing and they concluded the same. We had a chat and decided to head home for the night. We were parked in the entrance to the farm which is across the road from the church and has large metal gates, and when you look at the church from here it is off to the right. The three lads that had waited in the car for us drove of first and were gone by the time I had started my car and pulled out onto the road to the right, as if to go down the hill as the bend goes to the right. We had made it as far as the being opposite the church, when it felt like we had been driven into from behind by another car. But wen I pulled out I knew there had been nothing there, as this happened the temperature in the car fell dramatically as if it was mid winter and not a mild summer evening at all. As quick as this feeling came it was gone, although it felt like the warm air of outside was rushing in through the three windows which were open. The thing that we all saw next and I can still see it now, is a blotchy white mist moving away from our car in front of us down the road at quite a pace. There was no noise while this happened, just the temperature change. The car had stalled while this happened, I restarted the car and attempted to follow this mist, but to no avail. I cannot explain what we saw that night and it may have just been a summer mist patch, I don't know, but I do know I have never gone back, and probably will not go back again.

Chris Braybrooke

I'm writing to you from Internet Made Easy, a British Net magazine. We have a page in the magazine called 'Web Profile', where we chat to someone doing something interesting on the Net. My boss, Geoff Harris, pointed me towards your Borley Rectory site - which I think is really interesting, and would be ideal for this section. Would you be available for interview sometime before Thursday 6th September? We could conduct the interview either over the phone or via email - whichever is easier. If you are available, we would also need a big, high-quality image to go with the piece. Perhaps you have a picture of yourself standing in a spooky-looking house?? Anyway, please mail back as soon as possible and let me know if you're available.
Thanks,
Nik Taylor
[Questions and answers posted.]

Could you please let me know if it is possible to stay at the rectory or the hall. I would be very grateful for a reply.
Thanks,
Paul Taylor (Maths)
[The rectory no longer stands, and no accomodations are provided for lodgers. Please refer to my comments to visitors.]

Your's is the greatest newsletter of all time. I love it! I have spent countless hours reading the issues, and am totally fascinated by the stories and information you've put on them. I just discovered 'ghost talk' I hope it's still on I'd like to drop by and check it out. I wanted to say also that I saw in one issue that you offered any artist a try at a picture for your newsletter, it happens I'm an artist. I was thinking of doing a picture of Borley Rectory, which I can scan to you to see what you think. If you like the way it comes out you're welcome to use it. I'd personally love to do one. Probably would be a pen and ink thing, but I'd like to include some stormy clouds and maybe a ghostly type prescence in front of the house. I am wanting to do a drawing of the nun, but I'm not sure of her exact 'walk'. Did she cross the South side of the rectory from the front gate. It is hard to figure from the books where she walked. Also, if I do the picture in color, are you able to display a color jpg, (if you would like that is). Otherwise I'll stick with black and white.
Additionally, I was wanting to mail you a picture I took myself two summers ago, in which I captured accidently an 'orb'. I was up in Flagstaff at a hotel named the Monte Vista Hotel, reputed to be haunted, and asked if I could take a picture of their basement. The door to which is in the lobby, on the side. Not accessable to sunlight. The guy who worked there was behind the desk and said he wouldn't work down there alone, because he always heard noises. I opened the door, all you saw was the old cement steps, but I did hear noises down there at the time, and supposedly no one was down there. I got a weird feeling as I took the picture but I didn't see anything. I took it with a walgreen's cheapy camera, the kind you pay about 18 dollars for and throw away after you use, and when I got it back it had on it an orb. If you look you can see the orb is coming up from the floor. If it was a flash i dont' think this would look this way. It was a shock to me. So I'm enclosing the picture, I did give a copy to them up there, they loved it. Supposedly they are on the list for a ghost hunting crew, complete with equipment, to come and investigate. This hotel used to house famous film stars during shooting films up there in the 40's, such as Clark Gable, Humphrey Bogart, John Wayne, they have rooms named after them.
Barbara Clements
[Thank you very much! We will be happy to see your art work! On page 21 of The End of Borley Rectory, their is a map of the grounds. It looks like the Nun's Walk is in a NW to SE pattern. On page 45 of The Most Haunted House in England, Price indicates she was walking TOWARD the stream - away from the house - moving, therefore, to the SE. All incarnations of "Ghost Talk" have been cancelled. Their is, however, a Yahoo Borley Rectory Group available for messaging.]

I have been wading my way through Sir Edward Waldegrave, here is what I have managed to find out.
His grandfather Sir Richard built his house Smallbridge Hall, Suffolk in 1555. Queen Elizabeth stayed there in its early years 1561 and again in 1579. The house is known to have a chapel in the grounds which was dedicated to St. Anne. There was a previous property here that belonged to Sir Richard to. The property stayed in the family until 1693 when it was sold. Edward married Francis Rochester the daughter of Sir John they had five children Nicholas, Charles, Magdala, Mary and another. Nicholas lived at Borley and married Catherine Nee Browne they had a daughter Apollonia (Barbara) Waldergrave born in 1603. She entered the Brussels community in 1622 received habit 12/9/1623 and was professed on 24/11/1624. she died on the 18/4/1638 age 36. Charles lived in Norfolk and Somerset. Mary married Lord Petre of Ingatestone and lived at Ingatestone Hall, she is buried in the local church.
Karen Clarke
[Excellent! Thank you!]

I have been very interested in the Borley subject for some time now. And have visited on many occasions. Although the Rectory as long since gone there now stands a very Large and well kept garden and mature fruit trees. I would like to know as to who now owns the land that it stood on, if you don't have such information maybe you could supply any links as to I might find this answer.
Yours Sincerely,
Adelaide Liney
[My understanding is that the three council houses are a government project. A real estate agent in Sudbury would have the most accurate answer, but I shall do some research on my own in the meantime.]

Great news letter: I found "Signify" by The Porcupine Tree on Barnes and Noble's web page with [audio] clips. I listened to the [audio] clip for Light Mass Prayers. Very Spooky...I will be ordering it asap.
I have been enjoying my E. Power Biggs CD of Bach. Biggs was the best. I am going to make you a tape of him playing the "24 Oldest Organs in the World".. I just went and looked, I would have choked if one had been at Borley. But Alas. Most are in Germany and Holland.
I was intrigued with the furniture story from Canada [in the last newsletter]. It didn't have to be your mother's. I bet there was some stored somewhere from the previous tenants. Maybe it came from the carriage house apartment.
Kathy Rageur
[Thanks for the tip! The CD is also available from www.buy.com and several other web retailers. Thank you so very much for the tape. The organ at Borley is VERY small. It was built about 1865 by Henry Jones of London according to the The National Pipe Organ Register at Cambridge web site.]

Associate activites

According to the History Channel online schedule, "Hidden History: Psychic Espionage" will air at 8pm Eastern time on Thursday, 27 September. The program includes interviews with Hal Puthoff, Skip Atwater, Joe McMoneagle, and Joanne McMahon. Lyn Buchanan and Dale Graff, among others, also contributed in various ways.

Tips

If you see a news article, magazine, or web site about Borley, or with an interesting take on ghosts and the paranormal, drop me a line and I'll pass it along. No, UFOs, please.

Feedback

Send your feedback via E-mail. I'd love to hear from you.

Borley Rectory "home page"