Ah for thy fate, O shrill-voiced nightingale!
Some solace for thy woes did heaven afford,
Clothed thee with soft brown plumes, and life apart from wail -
But for my death is edged the double-biting sword!
Agamemnon Part V
Aeschylus, c450bc
Translation: E.D.A. Morshead
You could be snuffed out like a candle when you die. I don't like this idea too much, but if you think about it, you won't be around to either like or dislike the idea.
You could go to Hell for all eternity. People try their hardest to follow their religion strictly in fear that the cruel God proposed by most religions will send them there if they're not "faithful."
You could go outside the Great Sphere (more commonly known as the universe) and meet the Creators (the scientists who created the universe). The universe was created by many different people in a lab, and they designed everything perfectly and started life off on an evolutionary process. They created many cells with perfectly coded DNA and put them in the water. Eventually - over billions of years - they were to evolve into a race similar to the original Creators.
You could come back to life and live it again. This is the (choice) that seems to have the most evidence toward it. .....you come back to life and keep doing it over and over again until you have proven yourself to the Creator(s), and then you go to a better place.
We'll be tons more intelligent. I'd imagine you'd look the same, but then again maybe you could take on any shape you wanted to?
Actually, Heaven doesn't have to be heaven. It could be Moksa, or Nirvana, or any one of the other thousand names given to the place most Christians know as Heaven.
And how do you know we'll even go to a heaven? There are several other things believed to happen to you when you die. You have to look at it through a nonspecific religious point of view.
I can't really conceive of ceasing to exist, but then again I can't conceive of going to some celestial heaven with a bunch of small naked angels sitting on clouds playing the harp. If that's Heaven, I'll take the ceasing to exist.
The logical conclusion is that when we die, we die. Just because people don't want to be nothing when they're dead, doesn't mean that it can't be that way.
I believe all (visits by spirits have been wishful thinking). There's a simple explanation to everything, and people are too quick to say, "It's a paranormal experience." That's how most of the religions got started in the first place, IMHO (in my humble opinion): combinations of hallucinations, made-up stories, and legends passed on through generations. "God knows" how many people thought they were seeing ghosts of loved ones floating around on tombstones when all it really was was heat rising off the ground.
Hypnosis...is used all the time...as a way to spread religion.
If I could take something with me in the next life, it would be my knowledge, without a doubt. Material possessions mean nothing... If the next life happens to be Heaven...why would you need material possessions there anyway?
I'm not of any religion. I take all beliefs into consideration, (and) see which one sounds the best. When I die, I'll hopefully find out "the truth" and see how close I came. That's basically all life is - an experiment. Who can find the truth?
"Unforgiven," 15
The Other! BBS
Bennion, Utah
Ninety-Five Theses (excerpts)
16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven appear to differ as despair, almost despair, and peace of mind differ.
17. With souls in purgatory it seems that it must needs be that, as horror diminishes, so charity increases.
23. If any entire remission of all penalties can be granted to any one, it is certain that it is granted to none but the most perfect - that is, to very few.
29. Who knows whether all the souls in purgatory desire to be redeemed from it, .......?
43. Christians should be taught that he who gives to a poor man, or lends to a needy man, does better than if he bought pardons.
44. Because, by a work of charity, charity increases and the man becomes better; while, by means of pardons, he does not become better, but only freer from punishment.
45. Christians should be taught that he who sees any one in need, and passing him by, gives money for pardons, is not purchasing for himself the indulgences of the Pope, but the anger of God.
94. Christians should be exhorted to strive to follow Christ their Head through pains, deaths, and hells.
95. And thus trust to enter heaven through many tribulations, rather than in the security of peace.
Ninety-Five Theses
Martin Luther
1517
Translation: R.S. Grignon
Essay On Character
...I find it more credible, since it is anterior information, that one man should know heaven, as the Chinese say, than that so many men should know the world. "The virtuous prince confronts the gods, without any misgiving. He waits a hundred ages till a sage comes, and does not doubt. He who confronts the gods, without any misgiving, knows heaven; he who waits a hundred ages until a sage comes, without doubting, knows men. Hence the virtuous prince moves, and for ages shows empire the way."
........A divine person is the prophecy of the mind; a friend is the hope of the heart. Our beatitude waits for the fulfillment of these two in one.
........When at last, that which we have always longed for, is arrived, and shines on us with glad rays out of that far celestial land, then to be coarse, then to be critical, and treat such a visitant with the jabber and suspicion of the streets, argues a vulgarity that seems to shut the doors of heaven.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
1844
A Gift For God
...in a letter from Calcutta, Mother Teresa recalls how, in the early days of her work there, she was stricken with a high fever. "In that delirium," she write, "I went to St. Peter, but he would not let me in, saying: 'There are no slums in heaven.' In my anger I said: 'Very well, I will fill heaven with slum people, then you will be forced to let me in.' Poor St. Peter! Since then the Sisters and brothers don't give him a rest, and he has to be so careful because our people have reserved their places in heaven long ago by their suffering. At the end they only had to get a ticket for St. Peter. All those thousands who have died with us have been given the joy of a ticket for St. Peter."
........
We all long for heaven where God is, but we have it in our power to be in heaven with him right now - to be happy with him at this very moment. But being happy with him now means:
loving as he loves,
helping as he helps,
giving as he gives,
serving as he serves,
rescuing as he rescues,
being with him for all the twenty-four hours,
touching him in his distressing disguise.
A Gift For God
Prayers and Meditations
Mother Teresa of Calcutta
(c) 1975 Mother Teresa Missionaries of Charity
Harper and Row, publishers
The Wit and the Wisdom of Billy Graham
The Bible says God Almighty created the human race for a special purpose. God is love. He wanted some other creatures in the universe like Himself, made in His image, little gods who had a will of their own who could return love to Him. .....God wanted fellowship.
........
There are a lot of people who have an idea they're going to get up to heaven and come up to the gate and say to St. Peter, "How much is it going to cost me?" And then you'll pull out a five-dollar bill and you say, "Will that cover it?" And slap it down!
........
Well, I heard about a man who had read a book review on.....the transmigration of souls. He was helping his wife with the dishes and he asked his wife, "Does that mean if I die I will come back to this world in another form?"
"Yes, that's what it means," his wife said.
"Do you believe if I were to die, for example, I would come back as a worm?"
"Sweetheart," she replied, "you are never the same twice."
edited and compiled by Bill Adler
(c)1967 Random House, New York
Abraham
And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;
And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord's time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.
And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser
than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.
And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold
thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.
Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.
And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;
And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above
another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord's time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.
Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made;
And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.
And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.
And it was in the night time when the Lord spake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou
canst count the number of sands, so shall be the number of thy seeds.
Pearl of Great Price
(c)1981 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Heaven is what you make it.
If you take some of the greatest times in your life and some of the favorite things in life, and you put them all together into one big cluster, you have heaven. It's like another chance at life where nothing can go wrong. Everything is perfect, the way you want it.
Perhaps, after a certain number of years in heaven, you get a second chance on earth - in which reincarnation takes place to those deemed worthy. One can't stay in heaven for eternity. It's like a cycle.
Sometimes I strongly feel that I am reincarnated. I haven't had any flashbacks of a past life, but I would like to. I can almost imagine my past life. I think whoever lived my past life was drunk when he chose my path - just kidding. Perhaps he was an actor like John Wilkes Booth, or a writer like Mark Twain.
I would love to be able to choose (my) path in the next life. I think (that) would take a lot of creativity.
[What would I take with me if I could?]: my ten girlfriends. No, just kidding. Since I believe you can have whatever you want in heaven, I'd take some sentimental stuff...
1. old momentos from Scouting
2. my Native American collection (I'm not an indian but I'm fascinated by their culture and I like to collect and make indian stuff)
3. my collections - rocks, coins, etc.
4. momentos of places I've been
5. a few of my favorite books
6. my cat
7. all the pictures ever taken of me, my family, and friends
8. my computer
9. my modem
10. my rollerblades - I love 'em.
(A) question that's been bugging me a lot is this: if God forgives our sins, then do we need to fear whether we go or not? I wonder, because there is no set of rules that will let you go to heaven. I guess since I believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as my savior that I'm in. But is there more than that?
Then I wonder about the atheists. Do they go to heaven because God forgives them, or is that where he draws the line?
Some of that stuff really bugs me out sometimes.
Here's an excerpt from The Stand by Steven King:
"God worked discretely, and in the ways that pleased Him. It had pleased Him that the children of Israel should sweat and strain under the Egyptian yoke for generations. It had pleased Him to send Joseph into slavery, his fine coat of many colors ripped rudely from his back. It had pleased Him to allow the visitation of a hundred plagues on the hapless Job, and it had pleased Him to allow His only Son to be hung up on a tree with a bad joke written over His head. God was a gamesman."
"Foxdorf," 13
"The Thief in the Night"
Dark Hour BBS
Layton, Utah
Heaven will be a lot like earth, but with no problems.
The streets will be made of gold and silver. The walls of the buildings will shine because of the sapphires and rubies in (them). It will be a most beautiful place.
When you fall or cut yourself, you won't feel a thing and there will be no wound.
Nobody cooks the food. Nobody does any work, unless they want to.
Matt Oholendt
friend of "Foxdorf"
I don't believe in a heaven, and certainly not in a heaven where everything will be forgiven and where you can start a second "life" in a paradise, etc.
I made this choice a long time ago, and I'd like to share the thoughts that crossed my mind.....since I believe they could be important for people in helping them with their choice.
It should be a choice than only you should make. Don't be pushed by some sort of religion which promises you everlasting life in paradise. For me, this resembles some sort of brainwashing, more than a thorough belief in an almighty "being." (This) makes it impossible for you to make that choice on your own, since you are strongly influenced by that religion and its followers.
This is probably the hardest thing to do since you are brainwashed from the day you were born. For example, if your parents are Christians, you most probably will end up being a Christian too. So it's a matter of criticizing yourself - and who likes to do that.
Once you take this step, you are on your way to deciding for yourself if you think there is a god and a heaven. I did it, so there is no reason why you can't do it.
Once you are pretty sure that the choice you are about to make is your own - and ONLY your own - start thinking, "Is there really some sort of god?" just like I did.
"Is there something protecting you from harm as long as you believe in him or not? Have you ever experienced this god? After you die, will this 'thing' grant you some sort of second life in a paradise where you will rejoin friends and family who passed away earlier?"
Isn't this all to good to be true?
My parents are athiests, so making the choice was not very hard for me. In a way, my future was partly planned ahead by my parents because they did not believe in a god - making it very unlikely that I will ever believe in some sort of god.
But then again, up until my tenth birthday, I believed there was a god, and I talked to him when things went bad - which is pretty normal for a kid, I guess. But as I grew up, I started to ask myself questions about this god. "Why isn't he really helping me? Why can't I see or feel him?"
When I was about 13 or 14, I discovered the real truth about it all. There is no god - and certainly no heaven.
I learned about the approach of the scientist with the evolution theory, etc. I firmly believe in evolution. We are the result of millions of years of changes. Evolution can explain a lot more to me than any religion ever can. The creation of the earth and the development of life on it (amoebas, etc.) has all been explained and has been proven. The only thing we have not figured out yet is the creation of the universe, but that will just be a matter of time.
The reason for this complete disbelief in a god was simple. Just watch the news now and then, and know your history. The Church itself...brought me all the answers. All the slaughters that took place just for god - which are still going on today - made me realize this could only be the work of humans, not god.
I came to the conclusion there was no such thing (as a god). It has always been the work of humans - it's just somebody's imagination that went berserk.
All of this, and a lot more, forced me to see that a heaven could not exist. You are born, you make the best out of your life and experience as much as you can, and then you die and that's it!
This way of thinking makes you so much stronger when you are facing the world.
I don't mind people believing in a god to get them through the day, or because they can't make it on their own and are afraid to live. If it helps them, then that is good for them.
What I do mind is people living a passive life and in the back of their mind is the idea that when they die everything will be different. They will live in a paradise and have an everlasting life. That is such a waste. They are throwing their lives away just because they believe in some sort of heaven.
Why do people believe in this?
Is it because they truly believe in a god and a heaven, or is it because they think there is some kind of a reward for them? In other words, maybe they just act like a good Christian because they think they will end up in paradise as a reward? As a result, these people are not being "good" for the right reasons. They're just doing it for themselves.
My opinion on reincarnation?
Well, if it makes you happy and it gets you through the day, that is alright by me. Personally...reincarnation? Who ever had this idea?
Tell me, who is responsible for this reincarnation? Do you think there is a thing called spirit? That every human consists of a body that eventually dies, and a spirit which lives on forever? Where did this spirit come from then? Who created it?
This would mean...there are only a certain amount of spirits since they constantly rehabit other bodies. This is even more unbelievable than the god/heaven thing.
When you die, you REALLY die. It scares a lot of people, even me, but that is just the plain truth. The spirit? That's just your brain.
Just because you are able to think and reason unlike any other creature on this earth doesn't give you everlasting life. Why don't animals reincarnate then? Or do they? Or are animals also "bodies" with a human spirit inside?
Because it scares that many people, it is very logical that over the centuries, they've come up with many ways of getting around it. Heaven, reincarnation, etc. Some people need these kinds of explanations to get by. Others don't.
The latter (group of people) is completely free and really able to LIVE and experience every aspect of (life).
I don't think this is a fatalistic view myself, more like a realistic view. There is only one truth for me in my life - in the end I will die. Everything between my birth and my death is controlled by me, so I don't believe in fate either. The future is in your hands and you CAN control it.
As a result, I take full responsibility for my actions. Others don't, and pass the responsibility through to god or whatever.
Well, I made my choice, and I'm making the most out of my life. I won't be investigating a church, or whatever. I'm completely free now and do as I please. I try to do as many things as I possibly can before they turn the lights out. I suggest you make your choice - criticize yourself and believe - and hopefully you end up as happy as me. There really is a life without a god, and it's a lot better than you might think!
Ronny van Tongelen, 21
last year of college
learning computer science
Point of No Return BBS
Antwerp, Belgium
All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts. And I also behold that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith
Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith
(c)1976 Deseret Book Company
Salt Lake City, Utah